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Post by Spot bloody on on Feb 16, 2017 4:39:39 GMT 10
The last two posts are terrific. When you get down to, HV has won a lot more championships in the last 4-5 years then they did in the previous 6-7, excluding 13s which they seem to win most years. They've also upped the number of people playing hockey, whilst that might not be directly linked to hockey Victoria's involvement in clubs and regional areas, it hasn't hurt. And when you get down to it, are these two aspects not what you'd consider the most important achievements possible, becoming a more winning state and being able to get more people involved in the game.
Also side note last years 21s, the age group that won 18s 4 years ago, had 9 players in the JWC squad, of whom 6 went to Johor, 4 went to JWC. Last time Victoria had that sort of talent come through was when Klienschimdt, pollard and kemp all played junior World Cup, so can't expect every age group to be able to perform to that sort of level.
Looking at it on field and off field I believe HV are doing extremely well and if people put their hand up to help out once in a while I'm sure that wouldn't go astray
Again on a separate note, for people who are complaining about having andrew Henderson coach their kids, you're a bunch of s, he has been the premier club coach in Victoria for around the last 6-7 years. If that's who you're getting as a state coach at that age, you and your kid should be stoked
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Post by History on Feb 16, 2017 11:17:49 GMT 10
That under 18s team that won the title also won 21s the past two years and had 7-8 players in the Junior World Cup squad. I feel like that group of players are very different to the current 18s. Agree they are very different , as most of that group were going thru jnr state comps there was only 1 team chosen, the best of the best . Then the top players amongst that group were chosen for what was at the time Vic Futures . That group then exposed to high level training /coaching and playing opportunities , this resulting in them moving further away from majority amongst their age group as far as skill / experience etc . Then take into considering they are then chosen into National Futures programs and the pattern continues , high level training / coaching etc etc . These 7-8 players that you mentioned above were all part of the jnr state system I have just referred too . The problem over the past few years has been lack of consistency in regards to high performance / state team coaching and programs for those not quite at the level of futures ( now Emerging Vikings/Vipers ) , plus in the past 3 years 2 teams have been chosen , programs / opportunities watered down talent wise . Also those programs mentioned , Emerging squads and VIS for that matter have very limited positions available , current members stay involved for quite some years , again leading to a certain number of players moving further away from the pack skill / experience wise . The result is the now U18 group .
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Post by Guest on Feb 16, 2017 12:25:04 GMT 10
That assumes that if the 'squad' of good players in that age group had all received identical HV and HA training they would be more equal. That is ridiculous. Kiran is now in the kookaburras. Other kids his age in Victoria who missed out on some training squads are behind him because he is better. This is communist crap! Everyone needs to be the same and get the same. If a coach sees a player has the potential to play for Australia and wants to put some extra work into them then that's great. They shouldn't have the whinging masses complaining that their less talented kid isn't get exactly the same attention. Talent/ability in our sport is subjectively judged, it is not a 100m sprint. Lets be 100% PC, be as stringent and PC as possible in all training and all opportunities given to make sure everyone gets exactly the same. Tell HA they cant pick any of our kids in aussie futures squads unless they pick all of them. No one can be left behind. Our teams will drop out of the top 4, and will have no top end talent to get us over the line in clutch situations. But at least no parents will complain their child was not given the same opportunity. Good luck HV, cant imagine qualified people don't want to coach or select.
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Post by Guest on Feb 16, 2017 13:15:06 GMT 10
Also had Casey Hammond, Tyler Cowley, Jayshan and Gilmour play together in the JWC in-between the two mentioned. That was 4 in one team and Im not sure they were any more successful than other Vic age groups at 18s and 21s, probably as successful.
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Post by Guest on Feb 16, 2017 15:39:28 GMT 10
That assumes that if the 'squad' of good players in that age group had all received identical HV and HA training they would be more equal. That is ridiculous. Kiran is now in the kookaburras. Other kids his age in Victoria who missed out on some training squads are behind him because he is better. This is communist crap! Everyone needs to be the same and get the same. If a coach sees a player has the potential to play for Australia and wants to put some extra work into them then that's great. They shouldn't have the whinging masses complaining that their less talented kid isn't get exactly the same attention. Talent/ability in our sport is subjectively judged, it is not a 100m sprint. Lets be 100% PC, be as stringent and PC as possible in all training and all opportunities given to make sure everyone gets exactly the same. Tell HA they cant pick any of our kids in aussie futures squads unless they pick all of them. No one can be left behind. Our teams will drop out of the top 4, and will have no top end talent to get us over the line in clutch situations. But at least no parents will complain their child was not given the same opportunity. Good luck HV, cant imagine qualified people don't want to coach or select. The point of this discussion isn't about comparing everyone in a single squad or age group, but it is about comparing todays squad to the squad that Kiran was in 4 years ago, and the the training/events that HV ran for those kids back then compared to now. The biggest problem today is that over the last 5-6 years you had players like Kiran every year, one at least that were ahead, the year before Kiran was Casey from Greensbough, the year after was goldy, who is now at Altona, after that is steffans from wav, after that you have Henry from camberwell, and finally today's top age 18s is Nathan from southern. I name the clubs to point out that it is different every year, and that players come from all over, given Kiran is from donny, which is yet another club, sure you can name other players in each age group, who are either close, or even, some would argue better, but the point is that next years 18s, or even the years after that. i actually see this being the case due to not the amount of training, but to the lost of competitiveness in 15s JCS, where no top age player does it now. Everyone in these age groups did 15s JCS when it was required to make the state team (nathan did it at bottom age, was changed when he become top age), and train as much as you want, nothing beats what everyone here, wants to do much, and play the game, you get more out of playing a game with the best players in the state, than just training with a them of than that you do in academy, or futures vikings/Vipers, i also feel that going from 18 junior rounds to 14 has also hurt the development of players. So overall, junior players today are doing more trainings than ever, for less games, where is the fun that?
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Post by guest on Feb 16, 2017 15:44:10 GMT 10
Interesting point. There is a lot less hockey (actual games) for juniors now, and it is actually hurting the sport.
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Post by Guest on Feb 17, 2017 2:58:51 GMT 10
Also had Casey Hammond, Tyler Cowley, Jayshan and Gilmour play together in the JWC in-between the two mentioned. That was 4 in one team and Im not sure they were any more successful than other Vic age groups at 18s and 21s, probably as successful. Weren't an overly successful age group, didn't win a single 21s or 18s so....
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Post by ? on Feb 17, 2017 6:55:29 GMT 10
Yeah instead besides Cowley they helped the Vikings win their first AHL since 1998 hmmmm
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Post by Guest on Feb 17, 2017 8:59:19 GMT 10
Jayshan didn't play AHL. Neither did most of the kookaburras who played in Rio....... hmmmmmm
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Post by Watch the game on Feb 17, 2017 13:45:28 GMT 10
Yeah instead besides Cowley they helped the Vikings win their first AHL since 1998 hmmmm If you reckon they played a vital role at AHL, you're dreaming. Only one who did anything from those 4 was casey, and you'd say probably relied on the klienschimdt era producing at this ahl
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Post by Also on Feb 17, 2017 13:46:19 GMT 10
Yeah instead besides Cowley they helped the Vikings win their first AHL since 1998 hmmmm And also as a age group, or in age related events they weren't successful. Which is what was said before
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Post by Guest 1 on Feb 18, 2017 13:17:57 GMT 10
What events did HV run for thr group 4 years ago? The group of Kiran, Brethertons, Simmonds, Goldy, Gale and Hendry played 18s and won and they got chosen for Aus Futures which got them their VIS programs. There was never Emerging squads or anything like that and now Kiran is going to be a Kookaburra.
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Post by Guest on Feb 18, 2017 16:32:43 GMT 10
What events did HV run for thr group 4 years ago? The group of Kiran, Brethertons, Simmonds, Goldy, Gale and Hendry played 18s and won and they got chosen for Aus Futures which got them their VIS programs. There was never Emerging squads or anything like that and now Kiran is going to be a Kookaburra. Hendry didn't play but regardless is one of the best in that group. I think the next age group to come through and have that many players do anything at a junior level will be the age group being coached through by Rosie and their seems to be a lot more talent throughout that age group compared to the couple above it, for example this years top age 18s is just a bad age group, plain and simple, bar a couple of handy players it drops off super quick
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Post by Hook e Comms on Feb 25, 2017 8:41:44 GMT 10
just wondering last Hockey e Comms posted on HV website was 19Jan it's now the 25Feb would have thought a few things my be relevant to the hockey community in a month especially with the season only a few weeks away
information might be sent to clubs but possibly the general community might like to keep informed
If HV want to grow the game and compete against imerging sports like Women's AFL they need to promote inform
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