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Post by nope on Feb 20, 2015 10:49:50 GMT 10
HV Individual Membership Fee ($15), HA Levy ($10), Personal Accident Insurance ($15) and Player Membership Card, Administration Fee & IMG Processing Fee ($5).
$8 compared to $15. They may be pushing the other costs on to clubs, but the HV individual fee is an absolute joke.
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Post by Anyone? on Feb 22, 2015 20:51:05 GMT 10
Does anyone know if the U18 comp is running or not?
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Post by Guest on Feb 23, 2015 11:32:36 GMT 10
I believe U18 is going ahead. Last game on Friday nights.
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Post by Guest on Feb 27, 2015 11:58:16 GMT 10
it seems crazy that parents are coaches and selectors at the state junior level. I don't know of any other state sporting organisation that would allow this? If HV allows this then something is really wrong and needs to be fixed. Whoever appointed these people and then felt it was ok for them to be involved in selection should think hard about what they have done. It raised big questions about the validity of the process. The selectors who were part of this process should really also question why this was able to happen. Why does Hockey Victoria have no published selection guidelines? Why is every trial format different for every group? Why is ther no set standards like in NSW at least it would be something players could be measured against rather than just views of selectors who are parents?
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Post by Totally agree on Mar 4, 2015 22:37:39 GMT 10
it seems crazy that parents are coaches and selectors at the state junior level. I don't know of any other state sporting organisation that would allow this? If HV allows this then something is really wrong and needs to be fixed. Whoever appointed these people and then felt it was ok for them to be involved in selection should think hard about what they have done. It raised big questions about the validity of the process. The selectors who were part of this process should really also question why this was able to happen. Why does Hockey Victoria have no published selection guidelines? Why is every trial format different for every group? Why is ther no set standards like in NSW at least it would be something players could be measured against rather than just views of selectors who are parents? Really ? No set selection criteria . Have seen a number of trials over the years and its true no one the same as the other , only common factors are the coaches , selectors and the kids selected . Why is it that certain coaches tell kids they will be in certain teams , why is it that certain players received emails from a previous HV staffer telling them they were hard done by and that if they were still in charge then the team lists would have looked different . Different but clearly just as biased , just as corrupt . Do the best kids really get selected or is the best " connected kids "
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Post by Guest on Mar 5, 2015 21:20:20 GMT 10
In my opinion, Fitness testing may not be particularly a deal breaker when selecting a team. But what should be is a physical test, as i have been playing for many years i have seen players break during tournaments due to not having their body right before they go into a tournament, weather being injured or not. It is ridiculous to see the lack of flexibility especially in hamstrings, and a lack of core strength, both of which are incredibly important in playing hockey....
Beep tests are unreliable, most junior players in Victoria who are playing at a high standard are doing up to 10 hours (limit for state players) of training a week, so when coming of a training session to go and have to do a beep test the next day is stupid. As a junior coach, fitness is important yes but it can be worked on...there is no need to cut players just because they can't reach a certain level in a test that may not even be useful for their position (aka Goalkeepers and defenders)!!!!!
Parents coaching their own child is a reason for more argument..this is not the first time in a few years this has happened, with the U12 Schoolgirls team in 2014 the farther of one of the girls coached the team, and who to be honest isn't the best coach. If you look at The Lyons situation, Bethany is an Exceptional player who realistically was going to be in the team regardless, and not only that she is probably going to be one of the best player in the team. Beth's farther is also a very high standard coach who is pushing for the best out of the girls and they are proving to be a really good team, so why should there be reason for an argument because two people, both of whom are fit for the positions were just out of luck related. Everyone just need to calm down on this one and realise that it is going to benefit Victoria.
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Post by Off the mark on Mar 5, 2015 22:42:34 GMT 10
it seems crazy that parents are coaches and selectors at the state junior level. I don't know of any other state sporting organisation that would allow this? If HV allows this then something is really wrong and needs to be fixed. Whoever appointed these people and then felt it was ok for them to be involved in selection should think hard about what they have done. It raised big questions about the validity of the process. The selectors who were part of this process should really also question why this was able to happen. Why does Hockey Victoria have no published selection guidelines? Why is every trial format different for every group? Why is ther no set standards like in NSW at least it would be something players could be measured against rather than just views of selectors who are parents? Really ? No set selection criteria . Have seen a number of trials over the years and its true no one the same as the other , only common factors are the coaches , selectors and the kids selected . Why is it that certain coaches tell kids they will be in certain teams , why is it that certain players received emails from a previous HV staffer telling them they were hard done by and that if they were still in charge then the team lists would have looked different . Different but clearly just as biased , just as corrupt . Do the best kids really get selected or is the best " connected kids " The ex staffer saw all the kids at academy and also watched the trials so he had a better grasp of who should have been in that team than anyone, not sure how that is in anyway corrupt. Your way of the mark I'd suggest. But on your last point yes the "connected" kids did seem to get selected in more than one team. Send a broom through the place.
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Post by Inside Job on Mar 6, 2015 14:28:37 GMT 10
These are the guidelines
My child is a superstar, just to be sure I will take up a position on the HV Board. There four HV Board member with their son selected in the U18s.
With U18s selectors from Camberwell and Southern, were the selections going to be any different? Henderson, Lyon, McBride all coaching State Teams with a clear conflict of interest. Henderson the only one that can coach.
The same at Junior Club level, Henderson, Lyon, McBride all coaching their kids. Chairman Dalton's done the same, doesn't see what all the fuss is about!
It is a mess.
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Explanations please
Guest
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Post by Explanations please on Mar 9, 2015 22:11:42 GMT 10
These are the guidelines My child is a superstar, just to be sure I will take up a position on the HV Board. There four HV Board member with their son selected in the U18s. With U18s selectors from Camberwell and Southern, were the selections going to be any different? Henderson, Lyon, McBride all coaching State Teams with a clear conflict of interest. Henderson the only one that can coach. The same at Junior Club level, Henderson, Lyon, McBride all coaching their kids. Chairman Dalton's done the same, doesn't see what all the fuss is about! It is a mess. I think it would be useful if someone from Hockey Victoria would respond to the issue of parent coaching and selecting. This could be officially from the Board on the website or through an authenticated registration on this forum. Is this issue being considered or actively monitored in any way? Is there a guideline or selection policy dealing with the matter? The overwhelming feedback on this forum needs to be addressed please.
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Post by Inside Job on Mar 10, 2015 9:21:32 GMT 10
The HV Board has an Executive role to look over the proper running of HV. But who is there to look over the proper running of the HV Board? The Sports Minister. The HV Board has a fair number of by people from Southern HC past and present and Camberwell HC. The Chairman is from Southern HC and played at Camberwell.
The Club that has benefited most from the expansion of PL has been Southern HC. The Club that has benefited from NZ the overseas players not counted as overseas players is Southern HC. Mr Workman (SUHC) NZ player working at HV playing and coaching at Southern HC. Mrs Hernderson (Camberwell) working at HV, Mr Henderson (Camberwell) coaching SSV and HV state teams year after year.
Every year there are complaints about State Team selections. This year's complaints have gone to a new level with the high number of kids selected who have parents on the HV Board and the influence of two clubs Southern and Camberwell.
Parents getting involved in club coaching and committees to push their kids is something we all know happens. For that pattern to be repeated at HV is not healthy.
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Post by Jason Heatley on Mar 10, 2015 11:09:36 GMT 10
What's the process to become a selector? Are the people who are the selectors/coaches the only people that have put their hand up to do it? Or have people with no connection to these kids put their hand up to help but are being overlooked? If that's the case it's wrong and should be reviewed.
But if they are the only ones offering their time then there can't be any complaints. So many people complain about the way hockey is run by HV or complain about administrators at their club but don't put their hand up to help out and instead sit back and criticise.
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Post by peterandre on Mar 10, 2015 14:40:46 GMT 10
HV BOARD
Chris Chittick Elected Director – Goulburn Valley (?)
Robert Dalton Elected Director – SUHC (Chairman) - played Cam
Shaun Dooley Elected Director - Melbourne High
Tracey Drake Elected Director - Altona
Alison Foenander Elected Director - MCC
Andrew Hodder Elected Director - HAW - played Donc
Ellen Williamson Appointed Director - CAM
"The HV Board has a fair number of by people from Southern HC past and present and Camberwell HC " Doesn't look overly stacked to any club except maybe Cam but hardly over represented.
"Every year there are complaints about State Team selections " And there always will be as in juniors players 17-19 are usually interchangeable with 14-16
High number of kids selected who have parents on the HV Board and the influence of two clubs Southern and Camberwell
Jonathan Bretherton U18 men’s 1st team. If you want to argue this then I don’t know what to tell you.
Max Dalton U18 men’s 2nd team. Haven’t seen him play but it is the 2nd team so there may be a chance he made it into the top 36 players in this age group without parental influence.
I can’t see any players in the women’s U18s teams who have parents on the board. I also can’t see the clubs of the kids selected so I can’t see if there is a huge amount from SUHC and Camberwell. I haven’t seen any complaints on here about there being players from these two clubs who shouldn't have been selected. The complaints seem to be about lack of feedback, parents being selectors/coaches; not that their kids were picked undeservedly. I don’t think it will be constructive to name U18 players who people think shouldn't have made the respective teams.
Greensborough had 7 men in the Vikings; if there was a board member from Greensborough would you be claiming the club has undue influence? I have selected teams and I had no idea who was on the HV board until I went to the website today so suggesting some sort of influence is far fetched. Do you know if any of the NZ players from SUHC have residency or are you just casting aspersions? Are you suggesting that HV employees write the rules and regulations for their own self interest; big accusation!
I agree for perception sake we should avoid parents coaching/selecting their kids in state teams. Henderson is a premier league coach so you are probably going to struggle to get someone of that quality coaching juniors. If people don't put their hand up to coach or select then parents are the ones in all volunteer sports who pick up the slack as they are there anyway.
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Post by guest on Mar 10, 2015 18:51:15 GMT 10
The HV Board has an Executive role to look over the proper running of HV. But who is there to look over the proper running of the HV Board? The Sports Minister. The HV Board has a fair number of by people from Southern HC past and present and Camberwell HC. The Chairman is from Southern HC and played at Camberwell. The Club that has benefited most from the expansion of PL has been Southern HC. The Club that has benefited from NZ the overseas players not counted as overseas players is Southern HC. Mr Workman (SUHC) NZ player working at HV playing and coaching at Southern HC. Mrs Hernderson (Camberwell) working at HV, Mr Henderson (Camberwell) coaching SSV and HV state teams year after year. Every year there are complaints about State Team selections. This year's complaints have gone to a new level with the high number of kids selected who have parents on the HV Board and the influence of two clubs Southern and Camberwell. Parents getting involved in club coaching and committees to push their kids is something we all know happens. For that pattern to be repeated at HV is not healthy. Andrew Henderson would have to be one of the best coaches going round and if you have seen his boys play they would also be in the first 3 or 4 picked, regardless of who is coaching or selecting. Think he may of been PL coach of the year, certainly coached a PL team to a premiership. All the state teams he has coached have performed pretty well. Bet if you asked the players (and parents) of state teams he has coached if they would want A Henderson or some less credentialed person pretty sure I can guess which way they would go. I can only hope A Henderson comes to our club and brings his kids with him!!
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Post by Inside Job on Mar 11, 2015 7:36:37 GMT 10
Mr peterandre, to correct that list of yours.
HV Board Members with U18 Men's State Selected players.
1 Robert Dalton Elected Director – (Chairman) - played at SUHC and Cam
2 Alison Foenander Elected Director - MCC
3 Ellen Williamson Appointed Director - played at SUHC CHC/MCC
4 Andrew Poppenbeek -played at SUHC now WHC
Add State Selectors.
Add the parents coaching State Teams.
Add who is working at HV.
It is a conflict of interest tail.
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Post by peterandre on Mar 11, 2015 12:38:43 GMT 10
Sorry, I just went off the HV website; I wasn't sure who were the current board members. Agreed something needs to be done about the conflict of interest you speak of. The solution is pretty simple to address your list.
Coaches - no parents to coach their kids, regardless of how good a coach they are and how bad the alternative coaches are; even if there are no other applicants. Selectors - cant select if their children/relatives or anyone from their current or past club is trialling. HV employees/Board members - cant have played for or have been members of any HV clubs. Only non-hockey people (with no hockey playing relatives) or people from interstate/overseas.
All the university/school old boys clubs can do the selecting as long as they have no juniors. They can probably do all the coaching roles as well. Actually, maybe just the university clubs in case any of the players trialling go to the same school as one of the old boys clubs. HV can be run by people who have never had anything to do with hockey.
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Post by Smitty on Mar 11, 2015 19:53:52 GMT 10
Inside Job, I'm assuming that you have aired your grievances through an official method of contact with HV and not just anonymously made slanderous comments about HV board members from behind your keyboard alias....
There have been some great posts on this forum and it has lead to some interesting and thought provoking discussion on a range of topics. Some comments made in the genuine desire to see hockey in Victoria go from strength to strength. Unfortunately there has also been some defamatory statements made from behind keyboard aliases have turned the forum from a place of good discussion and banter, to a place where people feel they can air spiteful thoughts without any sense of ownership or consequence.
Hopefully we can all get back onto the good banter and thought provoking discussions on improving hockey in Victoria!
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Post by Cashed up ??? on Mar 12, 2015 7:37:48 GMT 10
There has been a lot of dirty laundry aired , some now cleaned and some dirtier than before , interesting reading sure , some factual and some ? well some still to be determined . I would like to raise the issue of entry fees to SNHC . Last night there were at least 4 under age State teams training , 16-20 kids in each team (64-80 kids in total ). Perhaps a very small number could have driven themselves , some car pooled , majority however would have be driven to training by a parent , some dropped at front gate , majority however would have had at least one parent come into the centre to wait during training . Each being charged $4.20 for the privilege . Some asked at the counter what they were getting for $4.20 , answer " to use the toilets " , canteen closed . A suggestion made last year , and the year before by myself to HV in writing was that perhaps at least one parent , per family of all underage kids attending SNHC for state training should be given a free entry card as the players do . Thoughts ?
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Post by nope on Mar 12, 2015 11:52:42 GMT 10
The contract HV had with SNHC is reaching the end, the entry fee was part of that contract.
HV have said that free entry for hockey is a must on this new contract, or at least significantly reduced cost like netball has.
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Post by oss on Mar 12, 2015 21:57:30 GMT 10
smitty, always easy to go through the 'proper' channels when you are in a strong position . Less easy when you feel you or your kids may suffer if you speak up.
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Post by Interested on Mar 16, 2015 10:36:27 GMT 10
OSS are you suggesting that there is "Black list" at HV. Lots of parents feel that as there is no set guidelines for selection that this happens - if you open your mouth to complain you are targeted. Is this something that seems apparent with the new HP manager who has never played hockey and was away on holidays during the final under18 and under15 selections seems strange that as the one of the main parts of their job was to administer and run selection and they were on holiday? ??
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